A potentially hazardous topic, and I’ve been debating about whether to post about it, as I usually avoid confrontation at all costs. But I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, because it has come up in a few conversations I’ve had with various people, who have various different views on it, which in turn has forced me to address my views on it.
Warning: my views are going to seem naïve and simplistic to many, and perhaps they are. But I have been doing my research, and in particular have been reading this blog. there are many more I could link to, but I like this one because it is honest and it has got me thinking about my views on the said topic. I mean on a personal level of course, the status of polygny in Islam is not being called into question. In the end, it is allowed in Islam today, just like it was at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him. I can understand why people are against it and wouldn’t want to practice it, but I don’t really see what the big deal is, if it is practices properly it can even be an advantage for the woman.
The main benefit I can see is quite simply more time. sometimes time apart is a good thing. You have more time to do things you did before, spend time with friends etc. and it would stop you from becoming too attached to your husband, I think, which can often be a dangerous thing.
I’m going to update this soon when I have more time, as I have some more “justifications” for my arguments. I know people are going to have strong views on this, and I’m just waiting for someone to say “just wait until you’re married..” .
But I just wanted to put the topic out there, and in particular discuss two things that I’m still wondering about.
Firstly, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the consent of the first wife is not needed. In fact, the husband does not even need to let his first wife know if he gets married. This seems to be the biggest cause of anxiety and distress for the 1st wife. the only way of preventing your husband from getting married again is by stipulating that you don’t want him to in the marriage contract (does anyone actually do that?) so, if you don’t do that, and your husband does marry again, do you have the right to divorce him?
another argument against polygny is that it doesn’t fit into western society and is outdated, but I’m worried about this idea as it can be applied to a lot of things in Islam. Are we being conditioned and influenced by western notions about what is acceptable and right?
As I said, I want to add more to this but it depends. I just think polygny is something we need to accept more, so that people aren’t made to feel bad about wanting to do something that is halal at the end of the day, providing the relevant conditions are met of course.
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36 comments:
AssalamuAlaikum, on cue..., 'just wait until your married!'
When my husband was working from home for 3 years I felt like I really wouldn't mind if he got married again cause naturally sometimes we got under each others feet.
After I had a baby I felt like I wouldn't want him to - naturally my emotions were up and down. Now i'm more balanced I like to think but I know it would be hard because he comes home at 6ish and both maymoonah and I really look forward to it. It would be strange if he came home one day and not the next.
Despite the fact that 2 of my friends are co wives and its not pleasant (because of many reasons but I don't want to judge coz I don't know the ins and outs,) sometimes I feel it would be better if my husband had a co wife because I could then spend more time with my parents who are both pretty much alone because they are divorced and I have to share my time between them and my husband. Whenever I visit one of them I think 'oh know my husband is alone' as well as my other parent is alone and I feel really bad.
Again its probably easy for me to say because i'm an 'only wife' but I really do feel my husband would be just because I kjnow his personaility and respect him more than I feel respect for any other person (until i'm in a bad mood).
My main fear would be my own insecurities and whether I would be able to deal with it. We probably all think, 'I'd be different' but it hasn't happened to us.
A sister I know got married to a brother and her best friend did also, not long after so they were both co wives. After a while they both divorced him because they didn't like his personality and character - NOT coz of the polygyny!
Just some thoughts.
wa alaikumsalaam. some interesting thoughts, i leanrt a lot about you from this post!
i remember following some comments on almaghrib where you talked about this topic and your views on it. you said, after doing some research you can see the beauty and wisdom behind polygyny. i wonder what's changed..
you're right, i might change my mind when i'm married, but i never want to get myslef into a situation where i rely totally on my husband, but this issue has been dealt with elsewhere.
thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Just a question... but wasn't this revealed in a time, where it was necessary and to protect women finacially, emotionally in war situations etc. I mean is it really necessary today? And not just in Western societies, i mean in general... Just a thought...
By the way - miss you hema-skat :)
Totally unrelated to your post, i see you put the cool quote up and emphasized the 'u' which I'm happy for! :D
As for the subject at discussion here, I have very strong feelings on it so don't want to say anything except I'm a very very selfish and jealous girl (yes I admit that) and would never be able to share my hubby with anyone. He's mine and all mine. That's just my opinion on my own personal life.
gry-skat we're online at the same time:)
a good question, and i'm sure you will see a variety of responses here so you can make up your own mind.
my view, for what it's worth, is that Islam is for all times so we cannot deny that polygny exists. it is not as necessary today, but people choose to practice it for a variety of other reasons. if it was only meant for a certain time, then it would have been made clear.
jeg savner dig..also(how do i say also in danish?)
liya- we're online at the same time too:)
yes, i added the U and i'm glad that canadians are on the side of the british when it comes to spelling!
actually, your opinion on your own personal life is interesting. you state that you have very strong feelings, and that you want your husband all to yourself, and i can see from your blog that you love your future husband a lot, but how would you feel if he decided one day he wanted to take another wife? would you leave him? that might be would you be willing to consider the idea for the sake of keeping him? that may be too personal a question, so don't answer it if you don't to, i'm genuingly inteested in your response.
AssalamuAlaikum u misunderstood I Fully support polygamy and would like to see it become more common. What im saying is its easy for us to say we'd be ok with our husbands marrying again but we don't know how we would be. Its part of the unknown.
What I would fear is not my husbands actions but mine, All too often sisters become so jelous they end up losing their imaan, this is what I fear.
I think i'd rather be alone than lose my Imaan.
Have you read bilal philips book?
Ah, now why you gotta go talk about polygyny? Stick to chocolate. I know about chocolate. :P
My personal views:
*It's allowed in Islam, no denial.
*It is very tricky to manage in reality for everyone concerned.
*Marriage should be about what is best for everyone, not just the guy, and sometimes guys get married again just to please themselves, not caring about first families reaction. Not always, but many times.
*The woman who is not jealous of her co-wife at some point is either
a) very patient and cool, mashallah
b) not very in "love" with her hubby in the first place (could happen)
c) dead.
*Culture plays a big part. Not in terms of halal & haram, but in terms of how well an existing couple can manage a new addition. Where it is commonplace, it might be easier, and even expected. Where it is rare, such as Western, and even Desi, tradition, it will be much harder to get away with, and probably more unfair on the woman who would not expect it to happen, and does not know how to 'deal'.
*In non-Muslim countries, polygyny is not supported by the State which means the 'extra' wives would not be protected by the Law, and potentially left open to abuses.
Hmm... am i forgetting anything? Can't think of any more points now. So, overall, my thoughts are - it is permissible, but not always advisable, and sometimes, it can be disastrous. Just like chocolate: it is halal, but you don't have to eat it, and if you are diabetic, you are screwed if you do. Pardon my American. :)
You say Jeg savner OGSÅ dig... LOL you're so cute, when you talk danish, do you remember the 1-2-3-4-5 ?
Well i agree with you, i know it is practiced many places, but i really can't relate to it... And i have to agree with 'liya, i don't think i ever could accept my husband taking another wife, i'm jealous as well and i think this feeling would eat me up from inside, ugly but true...
And what happens when there are children involved, i mean how do you deal with that? I think children growning up in western societies would be easy targets for so much bullying in familys who practice this, i don't know it's just an opion, not to offend anyone...Astaghfirullah
The blog you refer to is little more than numerous pages of slander/ghiba against her husband, showing her lack of gratitude towards her husband...
the only problem is, sisters don't realise when someone is slating someone, because we're so used to it and we're already so diseased...
May Allah save us all!
Ameen
I'd just like to add some extra points, to even out my comment:
*There are pros to polygyny, especially in war-afflicted countries where there are a shortage of men.
*If people can be mature about it, it can work, and work well. I am not against it, i just don't think i am mature enough for it. In fact, let's be honest - i am a child in a woman's body.
*I leave the decision up to the individuals involved, without judgment, and if anyone asked me for advice, i probably wouldn't give it, cos what the heck do i know, right?
*However, if my own husband wanted it... well... hmm... let's wait and see. I pray it doesn't happen, cos as i said, i'm not mature enough right now to handle it. Who knows in the future though... Allahu 'alim. Also, if there was some kind of national emergency, i think then it's about sacrifice and we have to swop the love of our husbands, with a love for the Ummah. So, i reserve my judgement for if/when it happens (and hopefully, that will be never, inshallah).
*Also, would i want to be a second wife? I'd only want to do it if i knew the first wife well, and she loved me and would never hold it against me. I think it is easier being the 2nd wife, as the husband has never been your exclusive "property", so fewer jealousy issues. But it would kill me to hurt another sister, so very unlikely to happy on a voluntary basis.
Ok, now i think i'm done, inshallah.
happy = happen :)
In answer to your questions that's something I already discussed with him, and since you ask so nicely, of course I'll share! :)
Simply put, it's just not something either of us would want and it's as simple as that.
If, say, he would want to take a second wife (just for the sake of saying), well honestly, I'd be devestated. I like to think that I'm everything to him and that he'd never need another because I'm "as good as it gets" for him and Inshallah will always be.
I don't think I could ever consider letting him just for the sake of keeping him. I think that the amount of love I put into the relationship needs to be returned to me fully and that for the sake of keeping me, he would never do anything like that to hurt me. Because it WOULD hurt me. Actually it would break me...and I don't know how I could live with something like that. And so, because he knows I feel that way and because he loves me, he would never even consider it...
I admire women who are as patient to do and accept being a first/second/third wife, but by and large, that's a very difficult thing to do.
Oops, and I was going to say: And I could never be that woman or do that - but my computer froze. So yes, I could never be her, because personally if he loves me and respects me, he should respect my wishes and want what's best for me, and I'll always want what's best for him, which is ME. :D
"To each their own". What works for some won't work for others. I say this because I have friendships with several 1st and 2nd wives.
Me- I'd feel really betrayed but not because of "love" but because I stuck next to him and been loyal and helpful through all the time we had nothing only to have him give what's due to me to another woman once he's established. I know, I'm not the mushy romantic type, too practical for that.
Most of the discourse sounds like the movie "The First Wives Club"- universal human emotions at work here, not just Muslims.
al gharib- the blog i linked to gives a realistic and honest view as life in a second marriage. as it is annoymous, noone involved knows her husband so she is not slating his reputation. i don't know how many entries you have read, but she states her husband's good points on numerous occassions. what i do know is both of us (i think) don't know the sister involved so can't make any accurate judgements on how "grateful" or "diseased" she is.
the rest of you, thanks for your comments. the range of opinions is interesting. i'll respond to them in my free period, if i don't have to invigilate. please make dua that i don't have to invigilate:(
Asalaamualikum,
hmmm the much debated issue concerning muslimahs. errm when I think about this issue two hadiths come in mind im not sure the exact wordings for them
but the first one is when Allah and the messenger have said something then we (the ummah) should not have an opinion on that matter.
The other is what you want for yourself you want for your brother.
Im pretty sure you guys are aware of these two hadiths. If I have them wrong then please do correct me.
As there are more women then men in this world, wouldn’t we want what’s best for each other as sisters? It’s natural for us all to want a companion. My feelings on this matter would be if my future hubby wanted to get married again yes I will feel insecure, I would go through all the emotions, am I not pretty enough for him, is there something wrong with me? But then I think if this is his prerogative then why am I to stand in his way? Who am I to tell him what to do if this the right Allah has given to him? I am not saying I’ll be happy about it as I am human after all but I know that if my husband married some one for other reasons than that he has fallen in love with her or he is attracted to her but for humanitarian reasons like she is a widow or a divorcee with children then I think, im not sure but I would like to believe that I am a nice person my love for my husband would grow. I am in two minds about this as you can see. My overall opinion is that if he can be just and he can make it work then I will Inshallah support him but that is if he doing it for humanitarian reasons and I don’t think I would be ok with it if it was within the first two years of our marriage as I am the romantic type and I want be the only one for at least couple of years. But I also agree with umm maymoonah your feelings about this matter is not something you can predict unless it is actually happening to you.
Faz
Don't know if anyone has already posted this but:
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_polysecond.htm
Wsalaam wahrehmatullahi wahbarakatuhu
soul scripture, thanks for the link. i got the other link from your website too:)
algahrib-i've just read through my comment again, and just want to clarify that i didn't mean to imply that you thought the sister in question was "diseased". i appreciate that you meant it as a general comment.
it's just, the sister in the blog found herself in a tough situation - her husband and best friend got married and told her a month later-and like some poeple on here have said, noone really knows how they would react to that sisutation unless they themselves have expereinced it.
daisy "I know, I'm not the mushy romantic type, too practical for that"
ha ha, don't worry neither am i. that was actually one of the thoughts i wanted to put out there, are our viwes on love/marriage/relationships being interested by hollywood/bollywood/FOLLYwood??
at the same time, i can appreacite why some people are against polygny and wouln't want to practice it. look at the example of Fatima RA, who was so averse to it that her husband did not take another wife until after her death, because he didn't want to cause distress to the daughter of RasulAllah, pbuh.
umm maymoonah- no i haven't read the book, but you're not the first person to mention it to me. it's definitely something i would read at some point. i have other material to get through first (MILESTONES)
i would love to meet someone was in a polygonous marriage. i don't know anyone:( not to get the dirt, but just to chat to them and see that way of life in practice.
especially from a guy's perspective. does anyone know of any blogs that do that?
because i was also thinking, everyone talks about how stressful it is for women, but if a man is fulfilling his rights the way he should be, i mean if he really feared Allah, then being in his position wouldn't be much fun. he would (or should) be in a constant state of worry about whether he was treating his wives equally etc. so, from that point of view, is it worth it?
imsulim- a well balanced and thoughtful approach as always.
this point :"The woman who is not jealous of her co-wife at some point is either
a) very patient and cool, mashallah
b) not very in "love" with her hubby in the first place (could happen)c) dead" is true, but jealousy is natural and there are numerous sources dealing with the jelousy of the prophet saw, my point is, should we let that hinder us.
also, should we let this hinder us:"In non-Muslim countries, polygyny is not supported by the State which means the 'extra' wives would not be protected by the Law, and potentially left open to abuses" shouldn't the law of the country be irrelevant? am i being too simplistic and naive here? i would hope that wouln't come into it, as in circumstances like this, our laws should always take precedance.
faz- i'm a bit surprised at your response actually, seen as you're a self- proclaimed "romantic"... "that is if he doing it for humanitarian reasons"
but what if he's not? what if he's just doing it because he wants to. which after all is his perogative, right? and would you ever consider being the second wife?
gry-
"And what happens when there are children involved, i mean how do you deal with that? I think children growning up in western societies would be easy targets for so much bullying in familys who practice this, i don't know it's just an opion, not to offend anyone...Astaghfirullah"
you're entitled to your opinion, so don't worry about offending anyone. i'm grateful everyone is being open and honest, and differences are healthy, so long as everyone can debate about it in a healthy mannar.
as for the issue of bullying, hhmm that's an interesting one. but as long as the child has a good understanding and a happy homelife, i don't think they would be affected too much. there are so many "unconventional" relationships out there today, why should this one be any different? why is it seen as more acceptable (even by some muslims) if the child's parent's aren't married, or if one of the parent's has had an affair.
polygny must be one of the hardest things to deal with for new muslims, or people looking into Islam. was it ever a problem for you?
Salaam sis.
Thank you, nearly didn't post it...
I thought a lot about it in the proces towards "Home" and had always difficulties with relating to it, as it so far from my upgrowning and the society norms and values i live in. In my opinon this particular subject was revealed in a time where it was necessary and even though Al-Quran is for all times, i simply cannot see that it necessary today, not in Western societies and as you mentioned it is illegal many places as well. How funny... As i write this there's a debateprogram about on tv about the exact same subject - a danish imam (a convert as well) is in studio and just said the exact same thing as i...
Well, i won't point fingers at anyone and i'm no one to judge, so if an arrangement like this works out for anyone, then i'm happy for them, but i know it wouldn't for me. I mean women are complicated and many men have difficulties with just making one woman happy.
Hema-skat
People which doesn't know much of Islam often ask me on this (like other typical questions: hijaab, pork, alcohol, marriage), and i have had many discussions with people about it.
What can i say, Allah knows best!
Sorry, let me clarify, all I'm saying is that if he respects me and my wishes he wouldn't do something to go against them. That's just my take on this.
Someone mentioned that females naturally crave female companionship, I disagree. I don't!
And I don't think that just because you oppose polygyny or think it's wrong for your own personal situation, that that makes you less of a Muslim. That's something we're not here to judge.
:)
I know plenty of sis in polygynous marriages...May Allah reward their sabr...
it isn't always as rosey as it may seem....but some sisters do manage to even live in the same house and share the chores...IMAGINE THAT!
im not sure, it will all depend on how much I have grown as a muslimah? To be honest if in couple of months time i get married and a few months later my hubby says hun im ready for wife no2. im not sure im in conflict on this matter but I hope inshallah that I will be strong enough to handle it. Its the battle of the heart vs the mind (logic) for me. If it is my Qadr then I will have to accept but that doesnt mean that I will not have my fair share of out bursts or selfish momments.
Faz X
we still on for monday?
Sorry forgot to answer your other question errm you know what I have been thinking about this lately? For me the guy will have to very exceptional for me to consider it. I don't mean he has to have a fancy job but in his emaan and manners for me to consider him. As there really aren't many practicing brothers. They are a very rare so maybe I should consider being a second wife? So hema want to share? Joking ....
Faz X
Gry- skøne (i copied and pasted it, you see i don't need a big fancy keyboard with the extra letters!)
here are the notes on how to give dawah/ tell people about Islam. i thought i'd post them here instead of emailing, so other can benefit. they are from an excellent course i attended by br Abdurraheem Green. he also has a section on how to deal with typical "awkward" questions on Islam. you can access it here (aren't i clever the way i can hyperlink on here!)
liya- i don't think it makes you less of a Muslim if you don't want it on a personal level either.
i'm one of those people that crave female companionship! in fact, i think i'd end up annoying the guy by getting on with his wife more than he does!
farzana- banana- i have emailed you. but sure, we can share:) i'm not kidding either, if i had to do it, i'd rather it be with one of my friends or someone i could develop a close bond with, like the example annon gave with sharing chores. as long as you did most of the chores though:)
http://www.islamsgreen.org/islams_green/uncomfortable_questions/index.html
Did you know that one of the examples that is used to demonstrate the maxim of fiqh "prevention of harm is given precedence over attainment of good" is the permissibility of a man taking more than one wife? The shari'ah recognises the difficulty a woman has in having to share her husband yet it gives precedence to preventing harm that would ensue if this wasn't an option.
I think the "if he loves me he wouldn't do it" goes both ways: if a woman has confidence in her husband to do justice, respect & acceptance for his needs and love him enough to sacrifice for them then she shouldn't stand in the way if he insists on it.
Personally, I'm a cynic. I don't think many brothers have what it takes to manage the challenges. And if we're brutally honest the women are no better either.
Oops there goes the lid from the can with the worms in... :-)
saabirah jaan, i was wondering where you'd got to!!
actually i don't think you've said anything controversial.
'I think the "if he loves me he wouldn't do it" goes both ways"' -
i was going to say something similar, but abstained, in case anyone took it personally- and i don't mean it in a persinal way. but if love is unconditonal and if you love somone that much, shouldn't you put their needs first?
undoubtedly, it would hurt knowing your husband was with a another woman. you would lose some of the love you had for him, and i imagine you would hold somehting back yourself, in temrs of how much you can love and rely on him, but i don't think it's a bad thing to be in that positon.
do you think anyone else wants to join our cynical club, or is it just us two?!
Saabirah - agree with you whole heartly... and your not the only cynic....
Faz x aka banana woman what happened to zana i much perferred that....
hema im taking you up on that offer..... so how long after you are married can I be the addition. Or can i be wife no1?
The thing about marriage is there often is a tug of war of needs - husband wants his needs/wants to be met, wife wants her needs/wants to be met. And that's when problems start. And that's when your marriage is tested. Marriages often break because of this, when compromises can't be made and middle ground can't be found.
I was thinking about this today and reached a conclusion re: the first wife/second wife issue. As a divorcee if I was to remarry - and a potential member of your Cynic Club :-) - I'd wonder who I can go to to find out about a potential husband, someone who knows him on a personal level deeper than his friends and associates who interact with him on a limited level and only see certain sides of his character. Guess who'd be the perfect character witness...?
I haven't read all comments but I think iMuslim summed it up best.
Anonymous 24 May 2007 09:31 - you've hit in on the nail. But I wonder How many woman during that first stage would be just in a character witness for their husbands. Just wondering thats all.
Just like when your husband really annoys you its so natural for shaytan to come to you and say, 'He never does blah blah blah! Or he always Blah Blah Blah. I'm sure you get the picture.
I'm glad the sisters are mature in their discussions. Yes it is a hazardous topic.
But like I say no matter how much we say, this and that we don't know how we would be when it comes to the crunch.
I'd say the best approach to take is the calm, confident, graceful one. Its far more attractive and Dignified.
Anyway I found a great article one 'advice to a husband with more than one wife'. It was brilliant but I can't find it!
It was along the lines of making your first wife seem like she's in her honeymoon period again, reassuring her she is still your first love, the Honourable mother of your children, it would take a very intelligent man to do this.
shouldn't the law of the country be irrelevant?
I didn't mean that if it is illegal by State law, it becomes haram (although some sheikhs have said this - not sure if it is the minority or majority opinion). What i mean is, that in a country where polygamy is an accepted normality, there should (inshallah) be laws in place to ensure that all the wives get equal treatment, and if a co-wife's right is being denied, she can petition a qaadi (judge) to intervene. However, in a country where polygamy is illegal (such as the UK), the second wife (i.e., unregistered wives) are merely "mistresses", and the children are illegitimate. This makes things harder legally, especially in the case of divorce and inheritance, if the wife/children are denied their rights.
I'm sure not how significant this issue is in reality, but it is one more point to remember for Muslims living in countries where polygamy is not considered by the Law.
Polygyny is not a religious obligation.
And so as such, I can choose whether I wish to be part of such an arrangement or not. I don't and can't fathom wanting to be either.
soroor, yes imuslim, the little minx, has a knack with words and is able to look at issues in an objective and balanced mannar, mashAllah.
imuslim- suche? (is that right? i asked one of my gujrati students today)i know you didn't mean it should be haraam in Western countries, i was just stating that i hope the guy would give his second wife all her Islamic rights so it wouldn't be an issue. but i do acknowelge that i probably live in my own little bubble where Muslims always want to do right by each other.
umm maymoonah: "it would take a very intelligent man to do this"
indeed. which is why, if i were to ever consider polygny, it would have to be for a guy with a high level of imaan, who would always put his deen before his own desires.
sumera- thank you for that assertive comment:0) i think there is a unaminous agreement that polygny is not a religious obligation, so no women should feel like she has to be prat of such an arrangement.
that said, there is an argument that if you do not explicitly state that you do not want your husband to take another wife when you get married, and he chooses to do so, you are not entitled to divorce him on that basis alone.
but i haven't really looked into it too much detail, so i'm not sure entirely.
*prat- is part obviosuly, didn't mean to insult you sumera jaan!
hey, it's been a long day of very hyper students on their last day of college!
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